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Author Topic: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"  (Read 5864 times)

Offline Kinneas

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Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« on: 05 April 2007 06:48 PM »
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Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
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Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87


Wow, a 22 page thread and still going! I certainly didn't intend to cause this much fuss. I'd just like to clarify a few things here. First, I don't believe I've ever promised player ship interiors, though I suppose there might be something I've forgotten. Second, I'm not saying that there won't be player ship interiors either. We will evaluate our ability to deliver player ship interiors once we get a little further into production and after we've fully understood what it will take to deliver a high quality capitol ship interior and experience. We do "understand the importance of player ships interiors to players and the pro-bridge/interior view is well represented within the team. I know everyone would like to get my commitment now, but well, it is a big galaxy.

However, I do want everyone to know that after careful consideration over a year ago, we decided against the "characters at consoles" mechanic for space gameplay. That doesn't mean we don't understand and value the importance of representing your character avatar in space.

Some won't like the mechanic decision we made and I understand that. But I'm confident that we thought through it very carefully and ultimately made the best decision for the game.
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Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online

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Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
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Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87

I played Legacy on the PC and did not like the combat. I understand it is better on the 360, but either way the only comparison I would make to Legacy is that you are fully capable from an exterior view. I thought Bridge Commander had a better combat model, and there too players were most effective and generally played from the exterior view, but we're not going the "manage a bunch of subsystems" route.

The interface and style of space combat will have a lot in common with most MMORPGs whether ground or space. Though SWG JTLS is not a good comparison. Eve is a better comparison from an interface perspective, but the team doesn't feel like they succeeded in creating an entertaining combat model.

We still have a lot to develop so I don't want to go into too much detail. Some will love what we realize, some will hate it I'm sure. But I want everyone to come to a conclusion based on what it really is and on the whole package rather than the sketchy information we're able to provide at this point. And for those who feel this might be going in the wrong direction, don't worry, there's still plenty of time to cancel your subscription
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Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online


Offline Kinneas

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #1 on: 05 April 2007 06:49 PM »
: Weirdly...wonders what Mr. Disney would say  :

I guess I find it odd that for probably more money than it took to make all of Disneyworld, a Tripple A MMO developer finds it difficult to  provide multiple types of gameplay experiences with a MMO infrastructure.

 "We are not building two games" -Perpetual.

Maybe there lies the problem because it seems for a 'Tripple A' budget, there is only imagination enough to use a MMO infrastructure to provide a very narrow type of experience instead of thinking of using a MMO infrustructure like a 'Disneyland' that can provide many types of experiences in one location.

One has to also ponder the activities of MMO makers who create little more than single player and multi-play experience and yet want to reap the bounty of a potential 2 million + audience. 

It sure is nice making a MMO for under 100 million....making 125 million in sales the first day...up to 800+ million in the first year and up to 79 million a month after that.  (they do not even have over 60 miles of physical theme park attractions to upkeep. Just computers)

I guess that has me wondering what Mr. Disney would say the most.   Hey.  There is nothing wrong with making money hand over fist.  It is what you do to get that money.

And right now...STO is no Disneyworld.

---
The Return of the Robber Barons!
---'
When you have famous game developers stepping up and saying:  MMO developers do no more work than required to make a single or multi-play player game yet reap unbelievable profits'...something is wrong.

Maybe it is because MMO's are still so new to the mainstream and after moving from single player experiences and multi-player experiences they do not understand what truly 'MASSIVE" Multi-play experiences could be delivered to them for the monies they provide (as well as multi-play and single play experiences that can be delivered with a MMO infrastructure too).

Hell no would a game developer really want to do what is required to create a Disneyworld. They want to stick to designing games of the 1995 era and reap 2009 profits.

People are catching on though.  Thank goodness they love telling folks that WoW has over seven million players and how that equates to over 70 million dollars a month...for a game that cost less than 100 million to make.   WOW has officially joind the BILLIONAIRE club and is closing in on the Trillion club.

A movie studio won't make as much as a MMO yet they will dump 200 million on a project where a game developer won't come close to getting that kind of production money (development money  for STO was not supposed to be a problem)

One almost wishes the Department of Justice would to look into the activities of game developer and MMO game developers.  This is getting out of hand. All the secrecy and hype has got to go.

---

I'm sorry if you feel my attitude sucks.



« Last Edit: 05 April 2007 06:55 PM by Kinneas »



Offline onibocho

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #2 on: 05 April 2007 10:50 PM »
No Kinneas. If they want our business then they must work for it. But judging from Darons last post I think the message is driving home.

May we hear our footsteps echo in the corridors of an Akira in 2009!

Offline Mountainforest

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #3 on: 06 April 2007 11:38 AM »
Daron made another post, and Perpetual_Motion also made a post in the same thread:

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Greetings! It's good to see everyone talking so emphatically about Star Trek Online! It's funny but this post reminds me of V'ger. It started out as a small, innocent announcement and eventually turning into a self-sustaining entity that won't die and consumes any helpless beings that happen to venture to close. :)

There is a lot of debate regarding the topic of ship interiors. There are people who want this game to be as true to Star Trek as possible which obviously means ship interiors. Then there are those who are less married to the idea of ship interiors because game play within a ship interior is probably going to be less dynamic and action oriented.

I hear what everyone is saying and to me, it sounds like people just want to make sure this game is inherently Trek as opposed to a random game with Star Trek art. We definitely understand the importance of this and we have this in mind with every decision we make. There are so many things we can do to reinforce that feeling of being the captain of a ship without having an interior view. Little things like showing your character portrait sitting in a captain's chair and giving the engage animation when you leap to warp speed. Seeing your avatar brace himself/herself in the chair as the camera shakes when taking a critical attack from an opposing vessel. These are just a few ideas off the top of my head but I think the important think to know is that we aren't making Star Trek Legacy Online, Bridge Commander Online or World of Star Trek Online...we are making Star Trek Online. We have some amazing talent on the project and we are out to make an awesome and fun game that makes you feel like you're living the show and movies we've all come to love.

I wish I could show you all the stuff we have to give you the feel of what I'm talking about but for now, you'll just have to wait it out. :klingonbiggrin: In the meantime, it's great to see everyone get so involved in the discussion! Keep it up because we are listening.

source

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I didn't intend to get this discussion off track with my off-the-cuff cancel comment. What I'm getting at is the fact that ultimately, players will vote with their dollars. In the meantime, it's challenging to sort through opinion to understand true sentiment, especially when opinion is alwys most represented by a vocal minority.

It is valuable to hear opinions in these forums and as we've demonstrated in the past, your opinions do influence our thinking. What is really helpful is when we get thoughtful and constructive responses. And I can tell you that even this current debate has influenced our internal discussions.

I enjoy reading the spirited debate and I applaud the moderator team for keeping things on track. My only regret right now is that it seems to me that we may have inadvertantly released too much information at once and I think there's a lot of great stuff that's getting lost in the noise.

source

Best use our DEV-TRACKER if you want to see the latest posts made by devs on STOnet.

Offline Kinneas

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #4 on: 06 April 2007 02:48 PM »
Mountainforest!     
Thank you for posting those!



Offline Zach

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #5 on: 06 April 2007 07:40 PM »
Thanks Mountainforest!


Offline CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #6 on: 09 April 2007 04:54 AM »
Evening, all - Happy Easter!

Another post from Daron on STOnet:

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I think this is an important discussion but I don't think PSIs are at the heart of the matter. I have no doubt that STO players will have plenty of opportunity to experience glorious starship interiors for combat, exploration, adventure, professional, and civilian activities. And while I think PSIs in particular are easy for just about anyone to desire, I think the real issue here is gameplay expectations. PSIs are required for a gameplay experience as seen in the shows and entirely different from any other game I know of, and certainly unique to the genre.

We considered mechanics that would turn gameplay into a simulation of the shows. We imagined things like mini-games, exploding panels, strongly differentated crew roles, and so-on. But in the end, we could not come up with anything we felt would be entertaining for more than the most die-hard Star Trek fan. We also worried that there was just no way to live up to the interesting activities implied by the show. Not to mention a host of other logistical problems that we felt would have doomed STO to being a nitch MMO.

So we decided to go another way. A way that doesn't exclude starship interiors nor require them. The way we went is not difficult to describe - we're making an MMORPG and the interface and play experience is an evolution of traditional RPG mechanics.

So while I think we can all agree that checking out a favorite part of a ship interior adds value, we're really talking about a more fundimental clash of gameplay expectations. We're making a game for those who enjoy RPG style gameplay and will just love what Star Trek does for this genre. That's not going to change. The rest is flexible.

That should be good for another 30 pages or so...  fed2

Offline Zach

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #7 on: 09 April 2007 08:33 PM »
What does PSI mean? He keeps saying that - i must be missing something

Thanks for the update btw Rebecca

Offline Mountainforest

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #8 on: 11 April 2007 08:51 PM »
What does PSI mean? He keeps saying that - i must be missing something

Thanks for the update btw Rebecca
PSI stand for Player Ship Interiors, the hotly debated subject in that particular thread :).

Offline Zach

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Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
« Reply #9 on: 11 April 2007 10:20 PM »
Ah, Makes More Sense now - Thanks!