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Author Topic: A PRO Permadeath petition (When does 'Risk IS our business' mean something?)  (Read 1716 times)

Offline Kinneas

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An interesting thread on the official forums started by Dreihkon
Location: Utah, USA
   
The Official Permadeath Petition
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I've come across people who believe that the idea of permadeath as an OPTION is still too much for people to handle. So, if YOU feel that you might play a permadeath character in ADDITION to a regular character, please say so. If you would not. Please don't post. This is for PRO-permadeath as an OPTION.


http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=17834
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A well thought out response by someone you may know:
 CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia
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This isn't going to happen.
You can always delete your character if you're killed, of course.


--- :sigh :



Offline Kinneas

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Proposal: The "Risk IS our Business!" Club.

Voluntary(You do not have to participate in a LIVE/Canon event if you do not want): You waive any and all rights if something should go wrong on a technical aspect once you accept mission(s)
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LIVE/CANON EVENT MISSIONS: One or many official studio event(s) that takes place in STO where the subscribers actions determine the outcome. The outcome becomes part of canon until the next reboot and can be built upon by other canon.

All volunteers names (& ship names) go on permanent record in the STO & CBS/Paramount writers database.

Special one-time-only mission badge(s)/awards.

Ability to log/record mission events to produce your own documentation from your perspective(YouTube).

Ability for CBS Studios to us in-game Cinematographer/Director filming tools to capture the even from many perspectives.

Ability for CBS studios writer to use in-game cameras to follow events or follow events in the directors cameras.

ABility for CBS studio writers to access personal logs of participating subscribers.

LIVE SFHQ: LIVE starfleet support manned by Cryptic/Atari/& CBS.
Celebrity appearances, video missions, celebrity communications ("I'm taking orders directly from Mr. Spock!!! Z.Quinto),
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If you die in a canon even you die.

If you survive or are the ones who 'made the difference', LEGENDARY STATUS is yours. We have always honored our own and will continue to do so.


So what is it worth to you?

When does: "Risk IS Our business!" mean something?



Offline Fraek

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Personally, I think that loss is a great way to add flavor to people's gaming experience, and indeed I believe that optional permadeath is one potential device that should not be dismissed.

I like your proposal because it suggests doing something creative with this feature, rather than either ignore it or make it identical to Diablo II's Hard-Core mode.  However, I feel that the reward you are suggesting may be a bit too grand, to the point that participants in these events are presented as being somehow superior to others, which seems ill-advised.  I fear it would either turn people off, or pressure them into adopting a playstyle that they will not enjoy.
I do not support the idea that every path should lead to the same destination (for instance, I have no problem with capital ships being limited to Fleets, even though this would put them out of reach for solo:ers; their playstyle should come with unique benefits of its own), but when you have a feature which appeals mainly to a niche audience, and which may cause a lot of distress for a large amount of people, I wonder if the reward of "LEGENDARY STATUS" may not be too great an incentive to be in line with Cryptic's philosophy for this game.

That being said, I do whole-heartedly support the idea of permadeath events, where people who enjoy this type of gameplay may get together and share in it.  However, the game would by no means favor these players; they would be playing solely for enjoyment's sake.  I would also like to think that if STO implements such a feature, players who might otherwise never have thought of playing in such a way will try it out, and some of them might discover that they very much enjoy it; thus, STO would have contributed to their gaming experience in a way that is not limited to this one game (similar to how mine was transformed when I discovered the joy of role-playing).

Offline Falin

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as uc as i love it, until the day they abandoned the flawed TCP/IP system for a more stable working one that doesn't drop people all the time, permadeath will be a thorn that will not b in games.

games do not want to lose player because they died due to a lightening strike taking out their internet, or traffic through the net dropped half their packets.  the internet substructure and design needs a massive overhaul to allow permadeath to be viable in games.
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Offline Jatal Khyron

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Gotta say that I lean towards Falin on this one, at least for now.

I like the idea of permadeath events, but unless you have a means to not penalize players for those events that Falin described, it wouldn't work. I think it might also become a cause for 1) Feuds between players/fleets because someone's stupid action got their favorite character killed, or 2) Players/fleets putting out 'bounties' of certain others for their own benefit somehow (for whatever reason).

Having said that, I do think that the idea of using permadeath scenarios for canon making events and commending those who die OR survive is a great idea. Not only would it encourage players to participate, it gives them a chance to make a difference, and imo that's what's been missing from MMOs. Everyone in SWG wanted not only to be a Jedi, but to fight Darth Vader and kill the Emperor. (Or play a Sith and be either one =)) When you make games based on previously existing content, I've always felt that their ultimate Achilles heel was that you couldn't really make the PLAYER and their character the central focus of the universe. They were always playing in someone else's backyard, so to speak. Here those who want such could become part of the greater galaxy at large, live or die. Because I'm here to tell you, everyone's deepest desire is just that: to make a difference. In games, in life, etc.
     So as an option? I would most heartily say yes.

Offline Fraek

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as uc as i love it, until the day they abandoned the flawed TCP/IP system for a more stable working one that doesn't drop people all the time, permadeath will be a thorn that will not b in games.

games do not want to lose player because they died due to a lightening strike taking out their internet, or traffic through the net dropped half their packets.  the internet substructure and design needs a massive overhaul to allow permadeath to be viable in games.
I like the idea of permadeath events, but unless you have a means to not penalize players for those events that Falin described, it wouldn't work. I think it might also become a cause for 1) Feuds between players/fleets because someone's stupid action got their favorite character killed, or 2) Players/fleets putting out 'bounties' of certain others for their own benefit somehow (for whatever reason).
Aye, I believe the trouble with people ganging up on permakillable characters was one of the main reasons that permadeath was turned off for Jedi in SWG.

Personally, I don't envision these permadeath events as being PvP events, but rather GM-led PvE ones.  I'd actually like Borg encounters to be reserved to such permadeath events, so as to make the Borg stand out as dangerous again.  Maybe you'd only permadie if you were assimilated, making it "a fate worse than [normal] death", and so as to encourage captains to destroy themselves and their ships rather than let their knowledge and technology fall into the hands of the Borg...  ...but I guess that may just add an extra level of frustration, particularly when lag kicks in just as you're about to go to ram speed.
Of course, the Borg are probably much too popular to restrict to such events, but perhaps another enemy could be conceived that would only show up in these events.  I'd like to see them have a noticeable effect on the game world (cutting off trade routes, for instance), so as to make wiping them out important.  The problem with this, though, it that people would complain that people who enjoy permadeath were getting preferential treatment.  The only remedy for this that I can think of is to give every considerable sub-community of players a chance to shine, but that may prove too daunting a task. 

Lag and other technical problems is certainly an issue here, as it adds a type of non-fun element of risk.  I don't know that there's a way to get around it, though; I guess we could only hope that after conquering the hordes of error messages that you'd get before entering a permadeath event, players would be prepared for the worst...  ...although that's probably being a bit too optimistic.

Having said that, I do think that the idea of using permadeath scenarios for canon making events and commending those who die OR survive is a great idea. Not only would it encourage players to participate, it gives them a chance to make a difference, and imo that's what's been missing from MMOs. Everyone in SWG wanted not only to be a Jedi, but to fight Darth Vader and kill the Emperor. (Or play a Sith and be either one =)) When you make games based on previously existing content, I've always felt that their ultimate Achilles heel was that you couldn't really make the PLAYER and their character the central focus of the universe. They were always playing in someone else's backyard, so to speak. Here those who want such could become part of the greater galaxy at large, live or die. Because I'm here to tell you, everyone's deepest desire is just that: to make a difference. In games, in life, etc.
     So as an option? I would most heartily say yes.
Aye, it's a tantalizing thought; an opportunity to make your mark on Star Trek!  Indeed, it's an interplay that people have wanted for a long time, but I wonder what the response would be like.  Though the reward is great, I suspect there would be a public outcry over the risks involved.  Then you'd have one side arguing that they're no less brave than other players simply because they don't enjoy playing with permadeath, and another side accusing them of being just that, and many would feel that Cryptic were siding with the latter group of players, and much bitterness would result from this...

...or everything would be just dandy, and our view of fiction would be changed forever to one where fans are seen as active participants.


Offline Jatal Khyron

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Well, as far as the list of complainers would be concerned, I tend to think that they would be primarialy those who weren't ST fans, as most Trek fans I've known were willing to put their characters on the line. When my friends and I pen and paper gamed, we risked our characters just as much. The complainers would be more gamer types that just want the coolest toys, most money, biggest ship, etc. just to show how cool they were.



Those kinda WOW style uberdorks we don't need anyway. =)