Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Star Trek ahead of the curve again...(warning, opinions freely given here)  (Read 4130 times)

Offline Lukas

  • Cadet 3rd Class
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Reputation: 55
Star Trek is entertainment, it has no place in government policy.

You're delusional. You are living in a dream world.

Offline Jatal Khyron

  • Hailing Frequency Donator
  • Lieutenant Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 292
  • Gamma Fleet Overlord
Really.

What was the name of the first space shuttle launched by NASA?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?


Offline Lukas

  • Cadet 3rd Class
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Reputation: 55
Is it nice there, in your little fantasy world?

Offline Zach

  • President
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2919
  • Reputation: 1475
Keep it civil in here folks

Offline Jatal Khyron

  • Hailing Frequency Donator
  • Lieutenant Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 292
  • Gamma Fleet Overlord
/sigh

OK, let me try this again....

The whole point of this thread was to point out similarities between proposed government policy and a Voyager episode. No one else disputed that.

I at no point ever said that Star Trek should drive government policy. I was trying to spark a debate as to whether or not said policy was good for the U.S. or not, using Voyager as a basis for comparison.

I have yet to hear any sort of rebuttal from you that supports any sort of informed position. All I hear is "You suck, you're a moron, Star Trek is campy, etc."

If you want to debate the issue at hand, I would be more than happy to. I am NOT, however, getting into a flame war with you. Not only is it beneath me, it's not something that should be on these forums.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you know what they say about opinions...

Offline Lukas

  • Cadet 3rd Class
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Reputation: 55
 
You are trying to make an argument about a life or death decision based on a campy sci fi show, and that is so 'censored' disgusting.

     So let me get this straight. You come onto a STAR TREK website, and insult the very reason for it's existence, not to mention it's fans by calling it 'campy'? That is what I find disgusting.

     Your argument holds absolutely no water. First of all, all those uninsured that the left in the U.S. holds so dear COULD be covered if we spent what excess stimulus money we have on it. It wouldn't even require more legislation. Hell, most of those uninsured are either:

1) Young people who don't think they need it
2) Those who can afford paying for it without a need for insurance, or
3) Illegal aliens who try to leech off the system for free health care.

    There isn't a hospital in the U.S. that would not treat someone who came into their ER with a life-threatening illness. They are required, by law, to treat them. As far as paying for the service goes, most hospitals will work with the patient on a payment plan, or even scale back the costs depending on the patient's ability to pay. NO ONE dies simply by their income bracket.
     However, if this current health care bill becomes law, then a government bureaucrat will get between you and your doctor, telling us what treatments we can or cannot have based on cost, or the age of the patient. These death panels effectively would legislate who would get medical care and who wouldn't based on age, income, profession, etc., just like in the aforementioned Trek episode.
     I suggest the next time you try to debate a topic on these forums, don't denigrate what you don't understand.

Bring some opinions and I'd be happy to debate them, but I can't debate lies, ignorance and wishful thinking.


Offline Jatal Khyron

  • Hailing Frequency Donator
  • Lieutenant Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 292
  • Gamma Fleet Overlord
I give up. I'd have an easier time talking to a brick wall.

Offline Yodaboy64

  • 1000 Open Beta Key Giveaway Extravaganza
  • Cadet 4th Class
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Reputation: 56
     It occured to me today that the current health care debate going on in this country (the US, just in case you didn't know), is eerily reminiscent of a Voyager episode called 'Critical Care'. In it the Doctor is captured and forced to work on a hospital ship, where he is restricted from treating certain patients based on a computer program that decided who could and could not receive medical care.

     Now while political discussions aren't typical around here, I always thought that since Star Trek dared to ask these kind of charged questions that would start a debate (regardless of topic), we shouldn't fear the same.

     Living in the US, and being inundated with rhetoric from both sides (I'm a conservative, just FYI), I see, read, and hear that our health care system in this country, if Obama has his way, will soon become a bureaucracy very similar to what's seen in that episode. See it and you'll know what I'm talking about.

     The idea that the government could tell us what care we can and cannot have is scary. Or worse, them saying when I die. (If I'm lucky to get a few more decades out of life.) I see the mercilessness of it. Your medical and financial freedom, gone. Not for the faint of heart.

     Well, this being such a debate, I'm sure that there are many opinions....

     O.K., hit me. I can take it.  =)

Alright, I'll bite, because this deserves a fair crack. The proposed health care plan is significantly different from that episode. First and foremost, this is because it's universal healthcare and NOT socialized medicine.

What this means is that people are allowed to have their private plans, but also (if the house bill is chosen) a public option. Think of it like education in this country: you have private and public schools, and you can choose to have your kid go to either. If you're willing to pay more, you can get a private option, but if you aren't made of money, then you go to the public option. The senate bill really doesn't even have a public option, so there's that. The bill is simply designed so that people don't have to be turned away from the doctor because they can't afford insurance or can't get insurance based on pre-existing conditions. Really the plan is better for everyone. It's better for the people who can't afford healthcare, because they'll be able to; It's better for the people who CAN afford healthcare, because it'll help keep prices down; It's better for hospitals, who won't be inundated by the E.R. visits of people who can't afford the insurance to go to a doctors office and then come into the ER for every little cough; It's better for doctors because they'll be able to treat more people.

What it does not mean is, as the episode depicted, and as Sarah Palin has been keen on repeating (despite it being proven to be the lie of the year), that there will be "Death Panels". There aren't going to be places that decide "ok, time to die". That just is a straight-up lie, any valid news source (please do NOT try and use fox news, they can't even place egypt on a map) will tell you that. Medicine will not become a bureaucracy. If there is a public option, that means ONE TYPE of insurance will become bureaucratic. But, let's face it, a lot of things are, and they still work ok.

So the answer to your thread is the lines of comparison are negligible. They are two very different topics.  The episode does, however, show that life is more than simple equations, and that a doctor shouldn't give up on a patient simply based on the likelihood of survival, but, at least in the US, that message doesn't carry into public policy.

Offline Jatal Khyron

  • Hailing Frequency Donator
  • Lieutenant Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 292
  • Gamma Fleet Overlord
While I respect your opinion, I can't help but wonder:

     What has the governement ever done better for us than the private sector? Bureaucracy would flourish. Government protrays the health insurance companies as 'evil and greedy', but the truth is they want that control and money for themselves.
     You cannot tell me that the government would run it better, or more efficient, than the private sector. We could take just a portion of the unspent stimulus and cover everyone that needed or wanted it. I don't like getting gov't health care forced upon me, under penalty of jail time. To me, that's ridiculous.
      What I was trying to say is that in a bureaucracy such as the one shown on the show could be an ominous foreshadowing of what this could be. I personally believe that government should stay out of our medical lives. By having control of it, they could mandate or make anything illegal, under the aegis of 'health care costs'. And if they could, it follows that they inevitably would.
      However this current issue turns out, I just hope that doesn't happen.

Offline Warborg

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 95
  • Reputation: 133
please do NOT try and use fox news

...and we are suppose to use CNN and MSNBC?

They are very biased and full of lies.

You also mentioned that universal healthcare will be a public OPTION. How is it an option if you will be fined if you choose no insurance at all?

It's also not going to be free or cheap as us as taxpayers will be flipping that huge bill.  I already pay federal tax,social security tax, medicare tax, sales tax, property tax... and now everyone says it's ok for me to pay for their 'cheap' insurance bill.