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Star Trek Gaming => Star Trek: Online (MMORPG) => Locations, Storyline and Characters => Topic started by: Kinneas on 05 April 2007 06:48 PM

Title: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Kinneas on 05 April 2007 06:48 PM
Quote
Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
Executive Producer
       
Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87


Wow, a 22 page thread and still going! I certainly didn't intend to cause this much fuss. I'd just like to clarify a few things here. First, I don't believe I've ever promised player ship interiors, though I suppose there might be something I've forgotten. Second, I'm not saying that there won't be player ship interiors either. We will evaluate our ability to deliver player ship interiors once we get a little further into production and after we've fully understood what it will take to deliver a high quality capitol ship interior and experience. We do "understand the importance of player ships interiors to players and the pro-bridge/interior view is well represented within the team. I know everyone would like to get my commitment now, but well, it is a big galaxy.

However, I do want everyone to know that after careful consideration over a year ago, we decided against the "characters at consoles" mechanic for space gameplay. That doesn't mean we don't understand and value the importance of representing your character avatar in space.

Some won't like the mechanic decision we made and I understand that. But I'm confident that we thought through it very carefully and ultimately made the best decision for the game.
__________________
Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online

Quote
Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
Executive Producer
       
Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87

I played Legacy on the PC and did not like the combat. I understand it is better on the 360, but either way the only comparison I would make to Legacy is that you are fully capable from an exterior view. I thought Bridge Commander had a better combat model, and there too players were most effective and generally played from the exterior view, but we're not going the "manage a bunch of subsystems" route.

The interface and style of space combat will have a lot in common with most MMORPGs whether ground or space. Though SWG JTLS is not a good comparison. Eve is a better comparison from an interface perspective, but the team doesn't feel like they succeeded in creating an entertaining combat model.

We still have a lot to develop so I don't want to go into too much detail. Some will love what we realize, some will hate it I'm sure. But I want everyone to come to a conclusion based on what it really is and on the whole package rather than the sketchy information we're able to provide at this point. And for those who feel this might be going in the wrong direction, don't worry, there's still plenty of time to cancel your subscription
__________________
Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Kinneas on 05 April 2007 06:49 PM
: Weirdly...wonders what Mr. Disney would say  :

I guess I find it odd that for probably more money than it took to make all of Disneyworld, a Tripple A MMO developer finds it difficult to  provide multiple types of gameplay experiences with a MMO infrastructure.

 "We are not building two games" -Perpetual.

Maybe there lies the problem because it seems for a 'Tripple A' budget, there is only imagination enough to use a MMO infrastructure to provide a very narrow type of experience instead of thinking of using a MMO infrustructure like a 'Disneyland' that can provide many types of experiences in one location.

One has to also ponder the activities of MMO makers who create little more than single player and multi-play experience and yet want to reap the bounty of a potential 2 million + audience. 

It sure is nice making a MMO for under 100 million....making 125 million in sales the first day...up to 800+ million in the first year and up to 79 million a month after that.  (they do not even have over 60 miles of physical theme park attractions to upkeep. Just computers)

I guess that has me wondering what Mr. Disney would say the most.   Hey.  There is nothing wrong with making money hand over fist.  It is what you do to get that money.

And right now...STO is no Disneyworld.

---
The Return of the Robber Barons!
---'
When you have famous game developers stepping up and saying:  MMO developers do no more work than required to make a single or multi-play player game yet reap unbelievable profits'...something is wrong.

Maybe it is because MMO's are still so new to the mainstream and after moving from single player experiences and multi-player experiences they do not understand what truly 'MASSIVE" Multi-play experiences could be delivered to them for the monies they provide (as well as multi-play and single play experiences that can be delivered with a MMO infrastructure too).

Hell no would a game developer really want to do what is required to create a Disneyworld. They want to stick to designing games of the 1995 era and reap 2009 profits.

People are catching on though.  Thank goodness they love telling folks that WoW has over seven million players and how that equates to over 70 million dollars a month...for a game that cost less than 100 million to make.   WOW has officially joind the BILLIONAIRE club and is closing in on the Trillion club.

A movie studio won't make as much as a MMO yet they will dump 200 million on a project where a game developer won't come close to getting that kind of production money (development money  for STO was not supposed to be a problem)

One almost wishes the Department of Justice would to look into the activities of game developer and MMO game developers.  This is getting out of hand. All the secrecy and hype has got to go.

---

I'm sorry if you feel my attitude sucks.



Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: onibocho on 05 April 2007 10:50 PM
No Kinneas. If they want our business then they must work for it. But judging from Darons last post I think the message is driving home.

May we hear our footsteps echo in the corridors of an Akira in 2009!
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Mountainforest on 06 April 2007 11:38 AM
Daron made another post, and Perpetual_Motion also made a post in the same thread:

Quote
Greetings! It's good to see everyone talking so emphatically about Star Trek Online! It's funny but this post reminds me of V'ger. It started out as a small, innocent announcement and eventually turning into a self-sustaining entity that won't die and consumes any helpless beings that happen to venture to close. :)

There is a lot of debate regarding the topic of ship interiors. There are people who want this game to be as true to Star Trek as possible which obviously means ship interiors. Then there are those who are less married to the idea of ship interiors because game play within a ship interior is probably going to be less dynamic and action oriented.

I hear what everyone is saying and to me, it sounds like people just want to make sure this game is inherently Trek as opposed to a random game with Star Trek art. We definitely understand the importance of this and we have this in mind with every decision we make. There are so many things we can do to reinforce that feeling of being the captain of a ship without having an interior view. Little things like showing your character portrait sitting in a captain's chair and giving the engage animation when you leap to warp speed. Seeing your avatar brace himself/herself in the chair as the camera shakes when taking a critical attack from an opposing vessel. These are just a few ideas off the top of my head but I think the important think to know is that we aren't making Star Trek Legacy Online, Bridge Commander Online or World of Star Trek Online...we are making Star Trek Online. We have some amazing talent on the project and we are out to make an awesome and fun game that makes you feel like you're living the show and movies we've all come to love.

I wish I could show you all the stuff we have to give you the feel of what I'm talking about but for now, you'll just have to wait it out. :klingonbiggrin: In the meantime, it's great to see everyone get so involved in the discussion! Keep it up because we are listening.
source (http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboard/showthread.php?p=110101#post110101)

Quote
I didn't intend to get this discussion off track with my off-the-cuff cancel comment. What I'm getting at is the fact that ultimately, players will vote with their dollars. In the meantime, it's challenging to sort through opinion to understand true sentiment, especially when opinion is alwys most represented by a vocal minority.

It is valuable to hear opinions in these forums and as we've demonstrated in the past, your opinions do influence our thinking. What is really helpful is when we get thoughtful and constructive responses. And I can tell you that even this current debate has influenced our internal discussions.

I enjoy reading the spirited debate and I applaud the moderator team for keeping things on track. My only regret right now is that it seems to me that we may have inadvertantly released too much information at once and I think there's a lot of great stuff that's getting lost in the noise.
source (http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboard/showthread.php?p=111083#post111083)

Best use our DEV-TRACKER (http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboard/search.php?searchid=40932) if you want to see the latest posts made by devs on STOnet.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Kinneas on 06 April 2007 02:48 PM
Mountainforest!     
Thank you for posting those!

Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Zach on 06 April 2007 07:40 PM
Thanks Mountainforest!
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia on 09 April 2007 04:54 AM
Evening, all - Happy Easter!

Another post from Daron on STOnet:

Quote
I think this is an important discussion but I don't think PSIs are at the heart of the matter. I have no doubt that STO players will have plenty of opportunity to experience glorious starship interiors for combat, exploration, adventure, professional, and civilian activities. And while I think PSIs in particular are easy for just about anyone to desire, I think the real issue here is gameplay expectations. PSIs are required for a gameplay experience as seen in the shows and entirely different from any other game I know of, and certainly unique to the genre.

We considered mechanics that would turn gameplay into a simulation of the shows. We imagined things like mini-games, exploding panels, strongly differentated crew roles, and so-on. But in the end, we could not come up with anything we felt would be entertaining for more than the most die-hard Star Trek fan. We also worried that there was just no way to live up to the interesting activities implied by the show. Not to mention a host of other logistical problems that we felt would have doomed STO to being a nitch MMO.

So we decided to go another way. A way that doesn't exclude starship interiors nor require them. The way we went is not difficult to describe - we're making an MMORPG and the interface and play experience is an evolution of traditional RPG mechanics.

So while I think we can all agree that checking out a favorite part of a ship interior adds value, we're really talking about a more fundimental clash of gameplay expectations. We're making a game for those who enjoy RPG style gameplay and will just love what Star Trek does for this genre. That's not going to change. The rest is flexible.

That should be good for another 30 pages or so...  fed2
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Zach on 09 April 2007 08:33 PM
What does PSI mean? He keeps saying that - i must be missing something

Thanks for the update btw Rebecca
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Mountainforest on 11 April 2007 08:51 PM
What does PSI mean? He keeps saying that - i must be missing something

Thanks for the update btw Rebecca
PSI stand for Player Ship Interiors, the hotly debated subject in that particular thread :).
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Zach on 11 April 2007 10:20 PM
Ah, Makes More Sense now - Thanks!
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: doken on 20 June 2007 06:20 PM
Quote
Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
Executive Producer
       
Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87


Wow, a 22 page thread and still going! I certainly didn't intend to cause this much fuss. I'd just like to clarify a few things here. First, I don't believe I've ever promised player ship interiors, though I suppose there might be something I've forgotten. Second, I'm not saying that there won't be player ship interiors either. We will evaluate our ability to deliver player ship interiors once we get a little further into production and after we've fully understood what it will take to deliver a high quality capitol ship interior and experience. We do "understand the importance of player ships interiors to players and the pro-bridge/interior view is well represented within the team. I know everyone would like to get my commitment now, but well, it is a big galaxy.

However, I do want everyone to know that after careful consideration over a year ago, we decided against the "characters at consoles" mechanic for space gameplay. That doesn't mean we don't understand and value the importance of representing your character avatar in space.

Some won't like the mechanic decision we made and I understand that. But I'm confident that we thought through it very carefully and ultimately made the best decision for the game.
__________________
Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online

Quote
Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
Executive Producer
       
Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87

I played Legacy on the PC and did not like the combat. I understand it is better on the 360, but either way the only comparison I would make to Legacy is that you are fully capable from an exterior view. I thought Bridge Commander had a better combat model, and there too players were most effective and generally played from the exterior view, but we're not going the "manage a bunch of subsystems" route.

The interface and style of space combat will have a lot in common with most MMORPGs whether ground or space. Though SWG JTLS is not a good comparison. Eve is a better comparison from an interface perspective, but the team doesn't feel like they succeeded in creating an entertaining combat model.

We still have a lot to develop so I don't want to go into too much detail. Some will love what we realize, some will hate it I'm sure. But I want everyone to come to a conclusion based on what it really is and on the whole package rather than the sketchy information we're able to provide at this point. And for those who feel this might be going in the wrong direction, don't worry, there's still plenty of time to cancel your subscription
__________________
Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online

 

Wow I kinda think you skimping out just to make a buck of the MMO burst that has popped up in the last 4 years. Btw you are talking sounds like there will be no open beta, if there isnt I wont be buying STO. I will use sony as an example, they are becoming the killer of games. they cut corners every time they get a chance, other games like WoW, LoTRO they dont hence why they make the money. Looks like you care more about money then about the players, look at it like wow care about the players and they will play well. Cut corners they game will be dead in 8 months and people will be back in WoW

You can only preform badly on a few games befor people stop looking at you, your a year off and you already have people in an up roar.  If you were smart you would have not said anything. Witch leads me to bealve you are just starting drama, your playing it all wrong you have made key mistakes. You have already broken the horses legs and he isnt even out of the gate yet.
Posted on: June 16, 2007, 06:05:15 PM
Quote
Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
Executive Producer
       
Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87


Wow, a 22 page thread and still going! I certainly didn't intend to cause this much fuss. I'd just like to clarify a few things here. First, I don't believe I've ever promised player ship interiors, though I suppose there might be something I've forgotten. Second, I'm not saying that there won't be player ship interiors either. We will evaluate our ability to deliver player ship interiors once we get a little further into production and after we've fully understood what it will take to deliver a high quality capitol ship interior and experience. We do "understand the importance of player ships interiors to players and the pro-bridge/interior view is well represented within the team. I know everyone would like to get my commitment now, but well, it is a big galaxy.

However, I do want everyone to know that after careful consideration over a year ago, we decided against the "characters at consoles" mechanic for space gameplay. That doesn't mean we don't understand and value the importance of representing your character avatar in space.

Some won't like the mechanic decision we made and I understand that. But I'm confident that we thought through it very carefully and ultimately made the best decision for the game.
__________________
Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online

Quote
Perpetual_Daron
Perpetual Entertainment
Executive Producer
       
Join Date: 13th May 2005
Posts: 87

I played Legacy on the PC and did not like the combat. I understand it is better on the 360, but either way the only comparison I would make to Legacy is that you are fully capable from an exterior view. I thought Bridge Commander had a better combat model, and there too players were most effective and generally played from the exterior view, but we're not going the "manage a bunch of subsystems" route.

The interface and style of space combat will have a lot in common with most MMORPGs whether ground or space. Though SWG JTLS is not a good comparison. Eve is a better comparison from an interface perspective, but the team doesn't feel like they succeeded in creating an entertaining combat model.

We still have a lot to develop so I don't want to go into too much detail. Some will love what we realize, some will hate it I'm sure. But I want everyone to come to a conclusion based on what it really is and on the whole package rather than the sketchy information we're able to provide at this point. And for those who feel this might be going in the wrong direction, don't worry, there's still plenty of time to cancel your subscription
__________________
Daron Stinnett
Executive Producer || Star Trek Online

I feel this is important space is a big part of star trek hence the name, its not planet trek. My main problem at this point is the 2d space flight and combat, if i wanted 2d space flight Would play one of the really old pc games that was freeware. I wont put my money into a game that is behind the rest of the industry. Most of the time was played in space and that needs to be the most robust, slack of here and people will not even look at your game. If the 2d space flight is still in at launch of beta i wont even sigh up and i wont be bringing my guild buisness there. 
You have big shoes to fill if you come up short you will have many fans who are pissed at you, it will hurt later games.
I have been playing games and running my own servers for almost 9 years, Ive watched sony kill games with ease. I fear this game is going to launch and be nothing more then a joke, and will ruin the startrek legend.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Zach on 21 June 2007 03:39 AM
Well Said!
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: gategod on 21 June 2007 06:27 AM
Well Said!
uh ... i heard they are now having player ship interiors....

http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboard/showthread.php?p=123380#post123380

 Originally Posted by Executive Producer Daron Stinnett
I just want to jump in and clear one thing up here:

A. There will be ship interiors - lots of them.

You will socialize, train, relax, explore, and battle within STO ship interiors. Several have said that a Star Trek MMO doesn't make sense without extensive use of ship interiors, and they are right.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: MrJuliano on 26 June 2007 09:14 PM
I've been trying to tell people for a while now that they were freaking out over nothing, but no one would listen to me. It's really a non-issue that for some reason has ignited the playerbase exponentially.

We don't truly know how the gameplay mechanics of STO are going to work, therefore we don't know if PSIs would make the experience more enjoyable, or less enjoyable. We just need to wait it out, and see what transpires.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: seras_jades on 14 July 2007 03:41 AM
Personally I think a PSI invorenment is crucial to the enjoyment of the game. If people are in it for being true fans of a 40 year franchise, and 40 years of enjoyment from shows, to movies, to toys, to games, then a PSI environment on ships is just as important as a good game experiance.

While your ship travels to a destination, and I'm assuming the galaxy will be large and takes a while from point a to point b, what are you suppose to do? Just sit there and watch your ship drive along in warp drive? I mean.. I find that lame. No while my ship is traveling, or there's an away team or two on a planet doing a mission, and you arent appart of it, and you have other duties on a ship then PSI is important to do what you gotta do.

Not to mention when you have "off time" from your duties you can walk the decks with ship mates and friends, or hang about in the lounge or holodeck. Or if you are a medical officer you gotta be able to move about the ship and a sick bay. Or engineering! You gotta have ducts and what not to work in for ship maintanence, or around the warp core and all that good stuff.

I mean there's plenty of oppertunities for a roleplay atmoshpere as well. You can go to other crew quarters that are friends you've made while in service to the ship and hang out.. Go eat a meal in the mess hall.. Or hey! Have borg or other threatening invasions where you have to go into combat if yer a security officer, or someone with combat skills, which most starfleet personel do anyways.

I mean there's plenty of good game play oppertunities in a PSI. I mean some people are right.. This aint all about watching your ship fly around in space. I mean make it an option to see the outside of your ship and the surrounding environments. But put in ship interior's for the love of Star Trek. I'll be so pissed if this company screws up the legacy and legend behind the name and movies and shows. I would seriously be so mad. And it would be an insult to the late Gene Rodenberry (Sorry if I mispelled his name) who took the time and imagination and dedication to make this legacy.

If this turns out to be a cheap knock off with low quality graphics and game play I'll shove it right back up their asses with a nasty nasty letter.
I'm 21 I've enjoyed 21 of the 40 years of the show and movies. I grew up on Star Trek and I would like to consider it a tradition in my life. It is apart of my life that has brought me joy.

PSI= a must. If not I will be demanding a full refund and apology for ruining a factor that has influenced the lives of millions across the world. This had better be of accpectation to any and all Trekies out there or you will have alot of pissed people and a short lived product.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Sandman on 18 September 2007 11:38 PM
I think everyone is over reacting this is my personal opinion. Calm wins debates the lashing out is not going to produce any desired results and it turns it into a us vs. them scenario. I believe Daron was trying to say there are going to be PSI's that you will use but if you expect that your going to have to change a light bulb in them your not. It 's like when you make something in a fantasy game you go to the forge you insert x and y components into the PSI and out comes z.The level of coding and the chance of bogging down servers or computers that have to equate the level of game play people are expecting is to say the least not realistic. The fantasy is always better than the reality. You will have to use them they are an integral part (probably) of every character in the game. Seriously I don't want to have to sit down and "make believe" I am doing something that is not affecting the game. EWWWW watch the pretty lights. BLEH. Now he could do that and you could sit in front of your monitors and change the interior color of the ships lighting just for you and for eight hours  you could get your interior ship lighting skill up to 300. Sitting down in front of a console and pressing buttons with my mouse just doesn't appeal to me much.Shooting the incoming boarding party of Gorn with my phaser however really really does. The 2d flight aspect IMHO bites. I can understand the interior but the exterior as well? I digress. I believe the interiors will have functionality just like any city does in a fantasy world the bigger the city the more options are available the smaller the ship the more restricted your going to be to affect items or upgrade your avatar. I think as a community we need to wait and see.

on a seperate note Mr. Stinett your comment to the community: "And for those who feel this might be going in the wrong direction, don't worry, there's still plenty of time to cancel your subscription" ...... NICE......is totally out of line coming from a producer why not just tell them to STFU or something just as rude. You did nothing there but allienate alot of people. IMHO......your right we can't see what you see but we hear you just fine.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Bajoran Berrie on 27 February 2008 10:05 PM
there has to be PSI, but i wouldnt mind a really restricted one. one of the thing i'm looking forward to is a senior officers poker game in my quarters. who's bringing the romulan ale?

but none at all would really make it hard to lose urself in the game . but thats just me.

PS ur all invited to the game btw.
Title: Re: Daron Stinnett on: 'Ship Interiors"
Post by: Zach on 27 February 2008 11:02 PM
Anything Daron Stinnett said about STO is basically obsolete now. PSI's may well be back in, so keep your fingers crossed.

Im gunna lock this old topic as there is a new discussion thread for PSI's.